Are you using PerfectIt? If not, I can’t recommend it to freelance editors enough. For years, I let fear and intimidation stop me from taking advantage of this software, and now I wish I could get that time back. On this episode of The Modern Editor Podcast, I sat down with Daniel Heuman, CEO of Intelligent Editing and creator of PerfectIt, to talk about how this program can help editors. Listen in as he shares about PerfectIt’s origin story, its many features, and an exclusive announcement about what’s next for the program.
Are you using PerfectIt? If not, I can’t recommend it to freelance editors enough. For years, I let fear and intimidation stop me from taking advantage of this software, and now I wish I could get that time back.
On this episode of The Modern Editor Podcast, I sat down with Daniel Heuman, CEO of Intelligent Editing and creator of PerfectIt, to talk about how this program can help editors. Listen in as he shares about PerfectIt’s origin story, its many features, and an exclusive announcement about what’s next for the program.
Hello everyone. We have a very exciting interview today. I am chatting with Daniel Heuman, who is the CEO of Intelligent Editing and the creator of PerfectIt, which is the leading editing software among US professional editors.
You might have heard of Daniel before and Intelligent Editing and PerfectIt. He has spoken at CIEP and ACES and Editors Canada and other editing associations around the world. Most recently, he launched DraftSmith, which is an AI-enabled writing assistant in December of 2023.
Now, you might be thinking, wait a minute. I’ve listened to this podcast before. Tara's not into AI. I'm not. At all. And that's why this conversation was amazing because we focused on PerfectIt, not AI, other than the fact that PerfectIt is not, doesn't have anything to do with AI. So I was really excited to talk to Daniel, and I hope you enjoy this interview.
Tara: Welcome to The Modern Editor Podcast, where we talk about all things editing and what it's like to run an editorial business in today's world. I'm your host, Tara Whitaker. Let's get to it.
Hi, Daniel. Welcome to the podcast today.
Daniel: Thank you. It is such a pleasure to be here.
Tara: Yes, it's been a little bit of a long time coming.
For those of you listening, Daniel reached out to me, it's probably been a couple of months ago now at the time of this recording, to solicit feedback on DraftSmith, which is a new product his company, Intelligent Editing, has recently launched. If you are a listener of the podcast or know me on any other channel you know that generative AI is not my jam, and so I had politely declined, but also it started a really great conversation with Daniel about PerfectIt because after being an editor for thirteen years this year, I only just now started using PerfectIt last year.
So I wanted to have Daniel come on and talk about all of the wonderful things about PerfectIt because it's one of those things that I wish I had done earlier, but I let my fear of it get in the way, and it's been such a game changer that I want you all to now hear the joys of PerfectIt.
So Daniel, that's where you come in.
Daniel: No, thank you. It's such a good story. It's such a good reminder for all of us that yes, people are spending so much time talking and thinking about AI. And guess what? There's this whole other stuff that we've been doing for a lot, lot longer.
That's a lot more research and we know a lot more about, and it's really useful to us today. So, no, I think, I loved being corrected on that and I love the fact that you made PerfectIt the topic for today.
Tara: Yes, absolutely. So for those editors who are listening who are brand new or have been in the game a while and just have never heard of PerfectIt, can you give us a little bit of a brief summary as to how it came about, what it is, who it helps? Just a general overview of PerfectIt.
Daniel: Okay, I'll give you the story, but I'll first give you the one-sentence answer I guess, which is that PerfectIt is a Microsoft Word add-in, and what it does is it finds consistency, mistakes, and it enforces how style and the number one users are professional editors.
So really spot on for this conversation. But in terms of, you asked how I came up with it, that gets into the longer answer. That's the story. So the truth is, I have never been an editor and I would not be a very good editor. You have certain skills that I lack, like patience and empathy.
These are the real, it's not about finding mistakes. It’s skills in being an editor are other things and the way in which editors learn to give feedback is amazing. And I've never done that in that way in my life. And I would never be arrogant enough to think I could design software for professional editors without that background.
So PerfectIt was designed for proposal writers. That's my background. I was a consultant, did economic consultancy, and we would write proposals and we would write reports. And when you get to the end of a proposal, when you get to the end of a report, you always do the same thing. You look at consistency mistakes.
Have we got the client's name right? We did some work for Formula 1. Is it Formula 1 with a digit? Is it Formula One spelled out? Do they allow F1? Can you say that? Is there a hyphen in there somewhere? That's just the client's name. Never mind the acronyms that you've defined or forgotten to define, or one consultant defined and another person used the same one again or didn't define.
And we do the same thing on every report. And that was my there-must-be-a-better way moment and released that. It took years to build and release that and aero consultants bought it.
Tara: Wow.
Daniel: It's only out of pure, like, I don't know what else to do with this. Maybe editors would have some level of interest, desperation, basically.
And then when I started writing to editors, the response was so different. Just even writing cold. This is a long time ago. I don't think it would work today, but 2010, I was writing to editors saying, I've designed this thing and I think it would help you work faster. And the response was amazing.
And editors, as I say, are very, very good with feedback. So once they had this tool, it wasn't just useful for the audience. The audience started telling me what they wanted and very quickly it became a product for professional editors. And the amazing thing about that is if you design something for professional editors, a lot of other people do editing at a professional level. So it's now a product for medical writers.
And guess what? Those proposal writers who would not trust me at the beginning, they love the product that the editors helped me to build. So proposal writers now buy it and lawyers and technical writers. Now it's for anyone who's working on very long, complex documents.
But the first audience was and will always remain, this is a product, you know, that has been built around the needs of professional editors.
Tara: I did not know that background story. And how interesting that you built this product specifically for an audience because you were that audience. And then they didn't resonate, but then you pivoted, shifted, which we often have to do in business when things change or things don't work the way we want them to or think they were going to, and then it exploded, and then that original audience came back around.
Daniel: Yeah, no, I mean, it's okay. You can call that a fail. That was an absolute fail at the beginning. But it absolutely worked out in the end. So very, very grateful to the professional editing community for all of that.
Tara: It was a learning experience.
Daniel: There, that it definitely was. We won't disagree on that.
Tara: That's amazing. Yeah, and I can see how when you were pitching this to editors saying, we can help you work faster. I don't know what copyeditor out there wouldn't be like, yes, please. Absolutely. Tell me more. Because we were just talking about this before we officially hopped on. That part of the reason why I decided to just let go of all of my fears and anxiety about PerfectIt and just use it was that as editors we're exchanging time for money, right? And we can only do that up to a certain capacity. Our skills and our knowledge and our abilities only can go so far with editing. So then when you find these tools that can help you be more efficient, be more productive, again, aligning with what you want to use and the tools you wanna use, it's a no-brainer. It's a game changer too.
Daniel: No, that was the response when people started using it. It was an absolute no-brainer. But it's because the community is so much more diverse than people think, right? If you picture what the world thinks an editor is, and yes, we'll be in the corner in the library with some dusty old books.
It's not true. But actually, 2010, when I started, you know, some people didn't like the idea back then, but equally, there's a whole bunch, there's a complete range, and others were immediate to try it and loved it and gave feedback, so absolutely. And then they started telling other people and it took off from there. But, you know, it's a bigger space than people realize with more different kinds of people than people realize.
Tara: You know how many times I still get comments about when I tell people I'm an editor, oh, the red pen comes out, or, you know, the glasses are at the tip of the nose and I'm looking down on them and I'm correcting their grammar.
That is still a stereotype that we run into often, and I'm trying so hard to combat against it, but oh my gosh, you're right. There's still a stereotype out there for sure.
Daniel: A hundred percent.
Tara: And you did make a good point too with how I said it would be a no-brainer, but then listen to me, who didn't use it until thirteen years of being an editor.
So there's always the early adopters and then there's the people that might take a little bit of time to come around to the idea or thirteen years.
Daniel: But that's okay. It's what people forget about editors as well is that you're building a business and it's probably not the first thing you need when you're setting out.
It's like the person who takes up tennis and buys the most expensive racket as the first thing they do. That's not, that doesn't make sense. First, you learn the game, or first you build up your business, and then you presumably got to a point where you are running a business and you're under the pressures of that and you have to find time for marketing and you have to find time for improving your professional education and all the other demands on your time.
And actually looking for consistency mistakes manually, that's just not productive; that is dull. And maybe in your first six months, that's not something you're gonna think about or care about. But the reason why editors love this product so much is it's taking away a dull task.
There's a thing I used to do with webinars and online presentations, which is that I would always ask, why do you write? Why do you edit? And if you ask a group of editors, and it works really well on Zoom, you get people to put their answers in the chat. You see beautiful, amazing things that get people into the field at the scientific end.
Someone wrote something like, I realized I would never be the best scientist in the world, but I'm one of those rare people who could understand the highest level of science and write about it. And then I realized that's my contribution to the field, which is just, even as I say it now, it's like that's a chill down the spine, and someone said, for me it's like meditating. That's another amazing answer.
And in all the hundreds of answers I saw, no one ever said, “What I really love about editing, what gets me up in the morning is checking the consistency of hyphenation.” That's just never one of the things, and yet that takes so much of the time, and when someone realizes for a really inexpensive fee that they don't have to do that part of the job anymore, no question.
Tara: That's hilarious. And you're right. I mean, that is definitely part of the gig, but it's not necessarily what gets us out of bed in the morning. I mean, I do love punctuation and I do love grammar and spelling, but there's a bigger picture there of why I do what I do.
Daniel: For sure. And it's, and it's not even taking away the interesting part of that work. Of course it's taking away the boring part of that work.
Tara: Right. So something that I was looking at as again, this veteran editor who didn't wanna do it because I was intimidated by what it is without going into, you know, a whole big technical presentation about it because we can look that up online on your website. What does it actually look like?
It, as you said, was a Word add-on. And kind of going off of that, is this something where I open Word, and I open my client's document and I send it into the abyss to who knows, the cloud, the language learning model, the ChatGPT, whatever. Where does this go? Does it go anywhere? And then what do I do with it? Can you give us kind of an explanation as to what that looks like?
Daniel: It started off so right. So yes, it absolutely does open in Word, and that's one of the things that makes it less intimidating. Right? You're in Microsoft Word, you're in your document, you're in a very familiar space. And then everything else you said after that, no, not, not that stuff.
So PerfectIt does not send any data anywhere for any reason. And I should be clear, I'm talking about the Windows version at this point. We can talk about the Mac version in a minute, but the Windows version does not send any data anywhere for any reason.
It's working absolutely inward and it's super easy, so it will show you things like consistency of hyphenation. And the software is stupid. We have built no AI into it. And it doesn't know what's right. What it knows is the word “federal” with a capital F and “federal” with a lowercase F may not belong in the same document.
There's a high chance there's an error around that, and what it's doing is those really fine editorial calls that AI isn't good at, software is not good at it. It brings those to your attention so you can go, oh, actually, this is what they mean. Let's fix this. Or that is intentional. There are reasons why you might have a letter with a lowercase and uppercase in the same document.
It knows obvious things. Like it's not gonna flag that at the start of a sentence. It's not gonna flag that when it's part of a capitalized phrase. But it looks for the ones that are most likely to be wrong. And it's like, eh, you wanna take a closer look here? So it's finding these very difficult editorial judgments, bringing them to the editor's attention, and making them very easy to correct without sending anything to AI, without sending anything online in any way. That's the Windows version.
The Mac one currently is online, so it's using a slightly different technology. This might be a big reveal. We might not have told people about this; this could be a bit of a first for the podcast, but we do have an offline version coming. I can't give a timeline for that, but that is absolutely something we are working on.
Tara: Oh, that's super exciting because I'm a Mac user.
Daniel: Ah, Ooh.
Tara: You heard it here, folks.
Daniel: So yes, there's a lot of improvements coming from Mac very, very soon. I didn't know we were gonna be covering that in today's interview. So this is, sorry, certainly quite an unexpected exclusive, but absolutely we know that there's been a lot of upset in the editing community among Mac users. Going back to the launch of PerfectIt Cloud is what we currently call it—t's not, we're gonna have to change that name—the fixes are not easy.
We've had to wait for some technologies to change, but it's absolutely becoming possible. So we’ve got a lot of really good stuff coming out for Mac users very soon.
Tara: Nice. That's very exciting. I'm not a technical person by any stretch, but I can only imagine how many intricacies and things that go into a Windows product versus a Mac product and I don't know how you're gonna do it, but I can't wait for you to do it.
Daniel: Well, technology has changed. Right? When we produced PerfectIt, the year is 2009, and Mac and Windows don't talk to each other. But now there's all sorts of web technologies, and they're not so different. And Microsoft, if you think about going online and running Word and a browser, those are the kind of technologies that we can take advantage of now.
So at the moment, if you are using Mac, your document is temporarily in the cloud and then it's deleted, like we're not putting any AI near it. It's removed. No one sees it. It's encrypted when it's on the server, so it's very, very secure now, but it's gonna have a much higher level soon where it doesn't even do a send, it doesn't go to a server. It just stays on your machine the entire time.
Tara: I'm glad you said that. That was gonna be my next question about, you said Mac was a little different, but that just alleviated any anxiety I have. So if someone is listening and they work with a client who, whoever it is, a publisher, an independent client, a company, they can be assured that their client's content, copyright, IP is not going anywhere but their device.
Daniel: Yeah, exactly. So if you are on Windows, it literally goes absolutely nowhere. And if you are on Mac, yes, it's in the cloud, but only temporarily. It's encrypted and then it's gone. We're not storing that anywhere. We don't have access to that. No one else has access to that, and it's quickly deleted.
Tara: Got it. Okay. Good to know. And I love that we didn't mean to pull an exclusive out of you, but I'm glad.
Daniel: Sure, you should be presenting this the other way around.
Tara: Yes. Yes. That was completely planned.
Daniel: No, it's good. We've been waiting to announce that somewhere and glad we could put it here.
Tara: No, that's exciting. Okay, so with PerfectIt, we talked a little bit about, it was created originally for proposal writers, then it went to editors, and now so many different professions use it. Is there any specific type of content that it works best for? Whether that's genre, if it's fiction, if it's technical editing, or technical documents I should say. Is there anything that it is particularly useful for, or can it just rock out with any document that you have?
Daniel: I think the answer is rock out with any document actually. Okay. Length matters, right? One of the reasons why editors like it so much is the documents tend to be longer medical writers, proposal writers.
The documents are longer. PerfectIt is checking consistency. It's not checking spelling or grammar. We like to say we're the only spelling and grammar checker that doesn't check spelling or grammar, right? So it's not checking those basics. You can do those in Word anyway. We're not replicating that functionality.
So it's not especially useful where all you're doing is checking spelling and grammar. On longer documents, you're checking consistency. You're checking house style, and that's where PerfectIt becomes so useful. I would say if there's one area that really excels, it's anything where you are checking Chicago Style, and I can see them right behind you.
We are the official proofreading software for The Chicago Manual of Style. And as a result, if you are doing that sort of editing work, the value add is enormous because yes, those books are fun, but if you're using the book, the only thing you can check is the stuff you think to check.
There's a mental process of, is this right? I'll go check it in the hyphenation table. Whereas, you know, we can't build every single hyphenation thing that might come up. But we've certainly built in the examples from the hyphenation table, and we've built in as many reasonable examples from the manual and the principles from the manual as we can.
So things like, Are you using the first listed spelling in Merriam-Webster? That's the Chicago rule. And those are all built in and they're rules on apostrophes with Ss and last names. We didn't build every last name in, but we went into the census and we picked the top 2,000 last names or something. So we've got a really strong size sample.
Tara: Wow.
Daniel: You know, it's not exhaustive. You have absolutely gotta check everything yourself, but it's gonna find things that you wouldn't necessarily think to look up. So one type of, and look, Chicago applies to so many kinds of editing. Chicago is the base manual for other manuals.
So if you're working in the Microsoft Writing Style Guide, which we also support, the base manual underneath that is Chicago. If you're working for the American Medical Association manual style, the base manual underneath that is Chicago. It's the base for a lot of academic editing. It's the base for a lot of fiction editing, so I think anything linked to that would be the thing it's very best at, but it's a wide range.
Tara: You are really good at reading my mind because my next question was going to be about the integration with The Chicago Manual of Style and how much that has saved me time because I don't have to open another browser with CMOS, search for the rule or remember where it is. It pops right up, and PerfectIt has a link that you can actually click and look and see what that rule is in CMOS without leaving the Word document.
Daniel: And most importantly, it's not just the time that you would spend looking for the book or going online, it's the headspace, right? It keeps you in the zone. What you don't wanna lose when you're editing something complex is that headspace and that zone and thinking someplace else. And if you can stay on the screen, if you don't have to look elsewhere, if you're not thinking, oh God, I have to log into Chicago, go do all this stuff, you stay in the zone. And so it's not just the time which is significant, it's also kind of the quality of work you're able to deliver.
Tara: Oh, a hundred percent the headspace and being in the zone is such a big thing that I have learned is key using PerfectIt.
And then shout-out to some macros that I use now. I use 1-2-3, but one of them just briefly is a quick keyboard shortcut and it adds a proper noun to my style sheet. I don't have to copy and paste it, go into another Word doc, make sure I'm putting it in the right spot, it just magically puts it over there.
And so you're right. You're in the zone. You're in that Word doc. You are living and breathing that Word doc and you don't have to go in 400 different directions to look up all of these different things. That's what PerfectIt is so good at.
Daniel: Wonderful. That is great to hear.
Tara: So good with being integrated with The Chicago manual of Style, you can also create your own style in PerfectIt. Correct?
Daniel: Absolutely.
Tara: Because you can't with Mac right now. Right?
Daniel: Wow, okay. This is not quite another exclusive. Okay.
Tara: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm not trying to drag it out of you.
Daniel: This isn't quite another exclusive look, but I think we did announce at ACES that we are working on a solution there, and so Mac version's getting all the things that we've been talking about for a long time.
Getting the ability to build styles, getting the ability to, we talked about offline checking. If you want to get an early preview, it's not ready yet, we're still in alpha testing right now, but if you want to be added to the beta list for Mac preferences, go to StyleWorks.app. And that will be our sort of new tool for building in preferences for Mac, and listeners can sign up there and get their names on that early access.
And the idea is with all of the preferences, I dunno, it might take a little longer on Mac, but certainly in Windows today, when you build in your preferences, you can add them to the Chicago Manual. So it's not just that you've got your rules or Chicago rules, you can put both together, and that may take us a little longer to get that far on Mac.
I'm not sure that's coming immediately, but that notion of combining styles is so useful because that's what you do when you're checking a document. You're not thinking about the two separately. Actually, it's your rules and your style sheet. Your rules and your house style, whatever you're checking against. Plus the reference style or root style, which is Chicago or whatever other one you're using.
Tara: Right. Well, I'm very excited for that because for the listeners who aren't familiar with PerfectIt, if you are working, let's say with a publisher who has their house style, you can put those preferences in PerfectIt. So then you have that house style with all of those preferences plus CMOS all in the Word document. And again, you're not checking different things and you know, going all over the place. You're staying in one Word doc, which that's a game changer too, because you're not, again, you're in the headspace, you're in the zone. You're not going all over the place looking for different things.
Daniel: Especially for editors who work with more than one publisher, work with more than one company. Because it's not just that you have to keep track of the house styles. It's you have to keep track of which one is which, and that's the moment I gave a talk for proposal writers recently, which was the Homer Simpson Guide to Enforcing Your House Style.
And I went through all the stupid ways you could do it, and I did a complete demo of it, the wrong way to do it. And the number one Homer Simpson advice is to try to keep house styles in your head because it's really easy, and there's no chance of any confusion, and you can keep track of which one is which, and there's no chance you'll ever forget anything because it's impossible.
You can't keep two entire manuals and remember which one is which in your head at the same time. And the point is with PerfectIt, you don't need to. You have one house style for one and the other house style for the other, and you enforce the right one on the right document.
Tara: We're going back to that headspace thing. That's a common theme here is we all have so much going on in our heads at any given moment with all sorts of things, and if I can give one shout-out or thing to say during this episode, I would say I wish I had started using PerfectIt way earlier because my head would've been a little less cluttered over my thirteen years.
But for those out there who are listening who might be in the same boat that I was, that, you know, this seems too intimidating, it's too technical, I don't know how to use it, or whatever reservations they might have, what would you say to those people who are thinking that but just need a little extra motivation or a little extra nudge.
Daniel: I mean, I think the key is to try it in stages, right? We're talking about some pretty advanced functionality here. We're talking about building in multiple house styles, and I've gotta be honest, functionality, that is kind of intimidating.
That's why we've got the new thing coming at StyleWorks, like we're trying to reduce the intimidation of that element. But if you're starting out, you don't need to do that. And the reason why the product was so successful in the first place is the start is really easy. If you run PerfectIt on Windows or on Mac, the first thing it's gonna do is it check the document and it just gives you, you know, a result of this, this word is hyphenated in one place, not in another. What do you want to do? That's not intimidating, and the interface is super easy, and if you just go that far and just use that feature, I think on its own, that's enough for most editors to say, oh, I want this. Where was this in my life?
And everything else can come later. Some of that stuff is intimidating. Some of that stuff I totally accept. We've done video guides because we know it's more complicated, but the basics, like there is a video guide, you probably don't even need it. Just give it a try on one document. The challenge I used to say is give it a try on a document that you think you got perfect.
And I found out that was too mean, because actually genuinely it will find things, and of course it will find things. You can run it on whichever project you're on at the moment. It's super safe to run. It's super easy to run. I would just give that basic feature of consistency a go, and everything else follows from that.
Tara: Oh, I completely agree. Because you're right, you can go in the weeds with it, the more advanced you get. But you don't have to do that at all if you don't want to. You can just use it for consistency. And I mentioned before we started recording that I said, oh my gosh, the things that it picks up now.
I really hope I didn't miss those in the previous twelve years of editing, because you know, you get to the end of a document and you run it and you're going, oh my gosh, how did I miss that? I've been looking at this document for how many hours, which you're fatigued, and it just picks up those last things.
But you are the one that determines if you hit that little fix button or if you ignore it because you're right, it doesn't change it for you unless you tell it to change it for you.
Daniel: Yeah, exactly.
Tara: And one of my favorites, I'm just gonna throw it out there because I want it to be on recording.
We've all had autocorrect and spell-check suggest things for us that we didn't mean. For example, duck. I know we've all had that. My favorite in PerfectIt is “Did you mean shift with an F?” When they want me to take out the F and then it lists all of the times that it was said without the F and I just crack up every time because I'm like, no, if I changed all of those to shift, that would very much change the dialogue in this thriller that I am editing. We are not changing these too shift.. But it's fun to just say, no, I'm smarter than you, PerfectIt. I know that is what I meant, or that is what the author meant. Move on, carry on.
Daniel: Funny thing is you can so easily turn that feature off and you and so many others will not do that. It's therefore the obvious things like shift work, which is, you know, thing.
Tara: It is.
Daniel: But a very different thing than what might have been written. We could make the product smarter and we could have it just appear on those sort of situations like shift work.
But actually, you know what? People love that it's, as you say, the sentiment side. The little moment of no. And then there's lots and lots of people who, you know, are just in different spaces where in fiction, it's just a funny feature I guess. But in medical, the difference between a public consultation and a public consultation without that first l.
Tara: Yep.
Daniel: Is really very, very significant. And not a mistake.
Tara: Classic, classic misspelling and acopyeditor’s dream kind of, because when we find those, we're like, ha, we just saved you a ton of embarrassment. You are welcome.
Oh my gosh. Well thank you so much for having this conversation with me, for explaining all of the goodies with PerfectIt. I hope the listeners out there give it a go if they have been apprehensive about it. Please don't wait thirteen years like I did. I will say that. Don't wait thirteen years. In thirteen years it'll be 2038. Let's not wait that long.
Daniel: Let's definitely not wait that long. No, thank you so much for having me on. It is such a wonderful reminder that while everyone on social media is thinking about AI and what's good and what isn't good and where that's going, that actually so many of the gains people can get today, nothing to do with that conversation.
And these much quieter conversations with way more research technology and way more research workflows offer a ton of benefits. So I really appreciate you thinking of that and making that part of the conversation again.
Tara: Yes, absolutely. And thank you for making such a stellar product that doesn't have AI in it.
Tara: I'm gonna include everything that you mentioned in the show notes, the StyleWorks app and the video tutorials. Is there any other link or anywhere else you would direct listeners to go if they wanna learn more about PerfectIt or Intelligent Editing or anything that you do?
Daniel: The other reveal was, you know, somewhat accidental. So we don't actually have a list or anything like that for the new functionality coming for Mac. The only thing I would say is it is coming. If you have the product, all those features will be built in and it's coming out over the course of many months. This is not gonna be an overnight thing.
Tara: Sure.
Daniel: You can join our mailing list on PerfectIt.com, and if you're coming from a Mac and having an experience that isn't quite right yet, we've solved a lot. We've been working on a lot over the course of the past year. It's a lot better than it was already with more things coming.
So if you have an experience on Mac that's not quite right, get yourself on the mailing list and you'll get the announcements when we are properly ready.
Tara: Amazing. And thank you for giving us that sneak peek. That was totally intentional.
Daniel: Absolutely. 100% planned.
Tara: Thank you so much.
Daniel: Thank you. Real pleasure.
Tara: Thank you so much for tuning in to today's episode. If you enjoy The Modern Editor Podcast, I would be so grateful if you left us a review over on iTunes. And as always, you can head to TaraWhitaker.com to connect with me and stay in touch. We'll chat again soon.